Where's the Bass?

topic posted Fri, June 11, 2004 - 2:53 PM by  offlineOogie
In response to Rick's comment about bass in another thread, I think it's important to consider the function of bass in Funk, how to feel it, how to articulate it, how to make it not just a chunk of mud, or how to use that chunk of mud ****occasionally**** to effect, and not just flubbing a whole place out.

Good funk has bass that moves you, along with a nice kick and snare line, and tasty hats. Lots of the best notes are just little ghosts and just serve to tickle you alittle before the fat note/thump/crack touches you in just the right places.

Now obviously different tones and characters have their places. Some bass tones are so thick in the mid-range that they just walk all over singers and keys, and guitars and stuff, some are hollow, and almost inaudible, and end up as flub. Some tones work perfect with the drums and sound like the drums are just tuned with each hit. There's no one way, and no single bass or drum that gives you the ultimate tone, it's the axe, the player and the context, every time.

There is a trend to load a place with subs these days, and it's definately hard to tune your tone, to be heard correctly and sound good. Also, most sound men taking a direct line from the bass just do a crap job of EQ'ing the bass. They really do. I mean how shows do you go to where you look in the sound booth and see a bass preamp/compressor there? I never have. So all that money that you invest in trying to get a good tone through an amp, then sending a direct signal from your bass to the board...all gone. Poop tone welcome, especially on older passive instruments. If you're lucky, you get a little processing on the drums, but the fact of the matter is that most live sound just sucks. It really should be a pre-requisite for soundsystems that use a direct line for bass to the board to have a good preamp, EQ, and compressor, or even just a decent one. The lack thereof is one of the reasons why bass these days sounds like crap with modern sound systems.

Also, most bassists don't know shit about EQ or listening to their rig from a distance, so they turn up the bass when they're close to it so they can feel it themselves, not realizing that 10-20 feet away people re losing fillings.

Any other thoughts, maybe about EQ'ing drums? Some bands that do have their sound together, good sound guys, etc.?

O
posted by:
Oogie
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Where's the Bass?

    Mon, June 14, 2004 - 2:56 AM
    Well, back in the day when I was in a very popular Northern California new wave band we would always
    impress the sound people wherever we went because we would spend five minutes at the start of each sound check by having the bass played and I just play eighth notes in unison
    until we could figure out how to eq the bass and the kick drum
    (with both equalization and tuning of the kick and equalization on the instrument and at the board for the bass).

    I remember that (and this was the days before wireless technology became prevalent or affordable) the bassist had a special sound check 50 foot bass chord so that he could walk around in the room and check for nodal spots and spots with subsonic mulitplication (a huge problem the deeper the tones get).

    We definitely fine tuned our sound EVERY NIGHT for each individual hall. Amazing, because in this day and age of relatively cheap digital parametric equalizers, you could just play a hall once, figure out your equalization and program it for future shows.

    In those days we would also use a technique called 'zipper eq' in recording studios whenever there were troubles with timbral masking of the low end between kick and bass guitar.

    you put the bass through one side of a 31 band graphic and the kick through another......then you go to the lowest frequency and you boost one instrument by 3 db and cut the other one by the same amount............move on to the next frequency and do the opposite. When you are done, the graphic looks like a zipper..........

    fascinatingly, if you soloed either instrument, they sounded a little strange with such a radical equalization but play them together and both sounds are extremely distinct and the brain fills in the gaps and hears both instruments as sounding full yet distinct.

    Another thing for drummers (and bassist to realize) is that in larger halls with reflective surfaces (Santa Cruz' premier showcase club, the Catalyst used to be a bowling alley for god's sake) one frequently has to tune the drums up to a higher pitch in order for it to be percieved as a lower pitch in the hall.........same thing with the equalization of the bass.

    I once did a gig with a wonderful bass player named Jeffrey Wash. We played this podunk club in the middle of nowhere
    and Jeffrey took about fifteen minutes with a beautiful fretless Music Man bass and a very sophisticated multi band parametric to play EVERY SINGLE note on his bass: dialing in each one so that the instruments' notes all sounded the same volume all the way up the neck.

    I've never heard a better bass sound in my life. It was full, with rich bottom but you could hear every single articulation in it..........just amazing.

    Mostly, it's just listening to what the room tells you.
    Every time I walk into a new performance space, I quickly walk around the room and clap my hands and listen to the ambience of the room and the subtle natural equalization that the rooms' reflectiveness gives to the percussive clapping sound.

    I've finally gotten to where I can usually hear how to alter my tuning (or how busy I can play in a room; the boomier the room and the greater the slap back echo in a big room the less I play, just because it's harder to hear for the audience with all that reflection going on.

    Every now and then you get into a room that you just can't do anything at all about (with the exception that the worse a room is, the quieter you should attempt to make your onstage sound to have it sound good). I hear a lot of bands try to drown out a room with volume..........it's just the wrong thing to do and usually has to do with the emotion of the musician rather than their ability to sound good.

    Okay, I'll shut up!
    • Re: Where's the Bass?

      Mon, June 14, 2004 - 8:35 PM
      Kick ass info, Rick. I never tried the zipper trick, always just using a parametric to scoop and scoot through, but I'll give that a whirl as well. I'm starting to hear more and more whisperings of the Funk, around and about. People are itchin to hear it.

      O
    • Re: Where's the Bass?

      Thu, November 4, 2004 - 8:52 PM
      Rick...that is indeed the best info I've ever heard myself...musical Yoda you are.

      Your freind and perpetual student.

      -Douglas
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Where's the Bass?

        Mon, April 4, 2005 - 11:44 AM
        Interesting stuff, but in this era of Pre-EQ DI's, how much control do we really have? I personally try to be as quiet as possible on stage to give the front of house as much flexiblity as possible. A lot of venues are too boomy though. The Shattuck Downlow, where we play a lot comes to mind...